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the food chain and my place on it - when you don't know what to do... — LiveJournal
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the food chain and my place on it
Someone started that "animal rights" noise on knitting again. Muthafucking vegans... if animals had rights they'd be human. Not that I believe in cruelty to animals, mind, but I think that it's a far sight more disrespectful of the earth as a whole to continue to create petro-chemical-based fibers so the poor little vegans can feel good about knitting their lame little wristwarmers and oh-so-indie skullcaps than to shear sheep for their wool so I can make a sweater. As far as I'm concerned, animals have the right to GET IN MAH BELLY! With barbecue sauce.

When the revolution comes they'll be hungry and cold, but warm in their hearts that they're respecting the animals. Meanwhile, they'll also be my slave labor, shearing my damn sheep. I'll be cozy, warm and fed.

(Why yes, I am crampy and irritable, why do you ask?)

i feel: aggravated aggravated

21 trips or shoot the rapids
s2go From: s2go Date: March 6th, 2004 10:08 pm (UTC) (base camp)
Have I mentioned lately that I love you? You and I so need to get together & hang out someday. Remind me again what Kingdom you're in. Maybe Snorri & I could make it up for an event sometime. *hugs*
tashabear From: tashabear Date: March 6th, 2004 10:20 pm (UTC) (base camp)
Oh, thank god it's you. I saw a comment, and I couldn't remember if anyone who'd friended me lately was a vegan. (I guess if they are they've learned their lesson, yeah?)

I'm an Easterner. I dunno if our twains shall meet any time soon, unless you trek up to Pennsic. If you do, however, you are welcome in my camp for a frosty bevvie and much string chatter. Ooh... we could walk around the merchants spinning! If I get to go this year, I must do that.
s2go From: s2go Date: March 7th, 2004 08:28 am (UTC) (base camp)

:^( Pennsic

Unfortunatly, we don't get to make it to Pennsic this year. Ansteorra is having it's 25th year anniversary and Snorri & I are both coordinators. He's doing fund raising before hand and I'm doing A&S activities at the event. It should be quite fun, but it's going to eat all the time off we'd be able to use for the year.

Are you in East Kingdom? Or Aethelmarc?
tashabear From: tashabear Date: March 7th, 2004 08:34 am (UTC) (base camp)

Re: :^( Pennsic

East. Definitely East -- I live in Massachusetts, in the Barony of Carolingia.

Well, no worries. I'm sure we'll catch up at some point; the SCA is like that. Have fun at 25th Year! (Sounds like lots of work, but a lot of fun, too!)
tpau From: tpau Date: March 6th, 2004 10:32 pm (UTC) (base camp)
peopel are stupid. really. and anyoenwho listens to PETA is pretty dumb in my book.
skittl1321 From: skittl1321 Date: March 7th, 2004 05:07 pm (UTC) (base camp)
I have seen one PETA ad that I like.

It is a billboard that says, "Fetch a dog from a pound, not a store"

Other than that I tend to really think they are full of crap.
crayolaab From: crayolaab Date: March 6th, 2004 11:02 pm (UTC) (base camp)
I live with a (male!) vegan who has recently started knitting, and he is in the middle of making a lovely scarf with ::gasp:: Noro Kureyon. He also happily wears wool socks sweaters pants etc while participating in numerous outdoor activities. So, while I quite agree with you (I have heard tell of people who refuse to knit even with reclaimed silk! How *that* harms the poor little silkworms I'd love to know), I hope it is some reassurance that not all vegans are so weird.
tashabear From: tashabear Date: March 6th, 2004 11:18 pm (UTC) (base camp)
It does, thank you. It's just the eejits who blindly accept the crap fed to them by PETA that burn my bacon. Hug your friend for me and tell him I said "thank you for not being insane." ;-)
crayolaab From: crayolaab Date: March 6th, 2004 11:42 pm (UTC) (base camp)
Well, he *is* rather insane, but in a good way :)

He's the sort of vegan that will pick and choose in his vegan-ism. IE, he'll use non-vegan margarine from a local farm rather than vegan margarine from a huge corporation sort of thing.

I've learned a fair bit from living with this particular group of people, most of it interesting.
tashabear From: tashabear Date: March 6th, 2004 11:52 pm (UTC) (base camp)
My sister worked with a vegan guy who was grossed out by the idea that he was made of meat. I understand he's gotten better.

I'm about to go postal on this runpostal chick -- she wanted to be sure I knew fiber sheep were slaughtered when they got too old to produce. Yes, and? So are milk cows. So are chickens. I don't bloody well care; I am on top of the food chain for a reason and if I really was an animal, she'd be food.

Ahem. Sorry. Did I mention the crampy and irritable part of my day?
From: boojum Date: March 8th, 2004 04:04 pm (UTC) (base camp)
(I got here from knitting -- I occasionally browse there and your writing looked both interesting and literate.)

There's a wonderful old science fiction story your sister should give to her friend. The machines discuss and discuss and discuss these new signals from aliens they're getting -- I mean, the aliens are made of meat! How disgusting! And the nice clean radio signals aren't proper electronics, but are electronic recordings of flapping meat bits! And the meat can think! Euw!

I don't know title or author, although I'm pretty sure there are illegal copies floating around the Net, some of which may still have attributions.
almeda From: almeda Date: March 18th, 2004 02:06 pm (UTC) (base camp)
Terry Bisson. And it's tinyshort, and exists in lots of places because people started passing it around by email (yes, THAT short). I think it's called 'Meat'.

Just a sec. Google, google ... Here we are.
skittl1321 From: skittl1321 Date: March 7th, 2004 06:16 am (UTC) (base camp)
I think animals have the right not to be blatantly abused. I also have the right to eat them and use their by products. On that line, I prefer not to use fur, because I don't like thinking an animal died for my outfit, and usually, fur harvesters are no where near humane.

Wool I have no problem with. If I hear of a company that blantly mistreats their sheep (like stuff shears into their skin while shearing or something), I will avoid them.

I think this particular girl didn'[t realize this arguement has been had a thousand times. She seemed quite clueless. Wool and fur the same thing? wow.
tashabear From: tashabear Date: March 7th, 2004 08:08 am (UTC) (base camp)
Sheep do get nicked when they get sheared. They're simply not terribly bright, and they don't get sheared often enough to get used to it, and they struggle and get nicked, just like you'll nick yourself if you slip while shaving your legs. It's about as painful for them as a skinned knee would be for you, and heals quickly.

It's the way PETA presents its case that I object to. They find the worst possible farms, the ones that really are abusing the animals, and take thousands of pictures, then try to pass them off as indicative of the industry as a whole.

I believe that we as humans have a responsibility to animals that our ancestors domesticated, and part of that stewardship and part of respect for those ancestors, without whom we would not be here, is to use what they gave us -- sheep for food and wool, cows for meat and milk, chickens for meat and eggs, and so forth. We have a duty to them, to ourselves, and to future generations to raise and develop these animals and the land in such a way that our descendants can continue to reap the benefits, and pass them along.
skittl1321 From: skittl1321 Date: March 7th, 2004 08:13 am (UTC) (base camp)
That's why I didn't say nicked. I said had their scissors jammed into them (like the equivelent of purposefully, and deeply shaving your leg sideways).

And I totally agree with the second part of your arguement.

And that babies can wear wool :)
tashabear From: tashabear Date: March 7th, 2004 08:26 am (UTC) (base camp)
That's why I didn't say nicked. I said had their scissors jammed into them (like the equivelent of purposefully, and deeply shaving your leg sideways).

Yeah, I can't really imagine a shearer doing that. They use bigass clippers, BTW, like the barbers does, but seriously heavy duty. Not sure if you knew. :-)
skittl1321 From: skittl1321 Date: March 7th, 2004 08:32 am (UTC) (base camp)
Yeah I've seen a sheep sheared.

I just know that sometimes they get in a hurry, and sometimes there are just mean people. (I saw a guy swerve four lanes yesterday to hit a buzzard in the road. That's cruel). So I think people need to find wool suppliers that fit their personal views.

Did you ever finish that dress you were working on? The apron dress.
tashabear From: tashabear Date: March 7th, 2004 08:40 am (UTC) (base camp)
(I saw a guy swerve four lanes yesterday to hit a buzzard in the road. That's cruel).

And stupid. Buzzards don't hurt anything and they tend to clean up the eco-system. Plus, it's amazing how something for fugly on the ground can look so beautiful on the wing.

I'm taking the dress to a friend's today for help -- I can't do the close fitting alone; I need help pinning the curved hem, too. I think I had a nightmare last night that it ended up way, way too short -- like mini-skirt too short. I have apocryphal dreams like that a lot, lately though; the last one was a disaster with my wedding invitations.
skittl1321 From: skittl1321 Date: March 7th, 2004 03:56 pm (UTC) (base camp)
I hope it doesn't end up mini-skirt short, but can't wait to hear how it turns out.

I'm currently trying to get a shift done before fitting a fitted cotte style dress (not the "cotte simple" pattern that goes around a lot, but similar), but am severly stuck on getting the sleeves on so I emailed my teacher and hope I figure it out before wed, or else I have to put the fitting off even longer.

I'm so excited about getting a super pretty gothic (as I explain to other people, "not black eyeliner gothic) dress, but not so excited about long sleeves and wool in Texas weather.
xianghua From: xianghua Date: March 7th, 2004 11:58 am (UTC) (base camp)
I can't either- a shearer who does that won't stay in business long!

I am sort of iffy on fur, and I'll actually make a distinction between animals-raised-for-fur or animals-that-are-fur-and-food (IE, rabbits, sheep, etc). And I'll definately use fur if I can find it at the goodwill store. I'll also use fur if it's a nuisance animal (I have a fox skin in my parents' attic that has been sitting up there since I got it back from the tanning place- Dad shot him in the quailhouse at the farm.).... but killing just for fur strikes me as SERIOUSLY wasteful.

skittl1321 From: skittl1321 Date: March 7th, 2004 03:22 pm (UTC) (base camp)
I have a beautiful mink collared coat that I have no problem wearing.

It is 50 years old, and I did not kill the fur directly or support the fur marketplace. It was purchased by my grandmother.

I find it to be wasteful not to wear it.

(Of course it is an ankle length fur lined coat and I live in texas, so it doesn't get much use)
21 trips or shoot the rapids